Thursday, March 1, 2012

Mountain Hardwear Nilas Jacket Review



Almost everybody in the climbing community (and most in the general outdoor community) have heard about Ueli Steck.  His speed free solos of the Matterhorn, the Grand Jorasses, and most notably, the north face of the Eiger, have brought him super stardom around the world, but especially in the climbing community.  Few people have become more enamored with Ueli and his climbing than I have.  I often check his websites to hear about his latest feats and goals and I can't count how many times I have watched this video of him free-soloing the Eiger.


So, when Mountain Hardwear announced that they were making an alpine climbing line of apparel, designed specifically for Ueli and mostly by Ueli, I perked up.  To be honest, I used to be a big Mountain Hardwear fan, but in recent years I was less psyched on their gear.  It seemed to me that their quality and core commitment was a little lacking in the last few years.

While I was at the Outdoor Retailer show this past January, I stopped by the Mountain Hardwear booth to take a close look at the new, Ueli-inspired line of alpine climbing apparel.  I checked it over throughly and was pleasantly surprised at what I found.  While talking to the Mountain Hardwear rep for Utah, he admitted that the last few years had been a little stagnant for MHW; that they hadn't been as innovative as they used to be.  He assured me that those stagnant days were over and that MHW would be at the forefront of apparel and equipment innovation, starting with the Ueli line.

I love jackets, so when I saw MHW's 22oz Nilas Down Jacket (the same weight as my Rab Neutrino) that apparently is part of Ueli's Himalayan system, I had to see it for myself.  It didn't make sense to me that a 22oz down jacket could be warm enough for 8000 meter peaks.  So, I ordered one.  $500 retail price tag. . . Ouch!  I also tried to order a Quasar pullover, but they were out of stock in my size.

The Nilas arrived last week, and these are my initial impressions, along with a lot of pictures:


The Features and Stats
I'll be comparing this jacket to the Rab Neutrino Endurance.  I'm doing this because I have already done an in-depth review of the Neutrino and they're the same weight, so it gives us a good baseline.  I'm also comparing these two because I believe that the Neutrino is one of the best midweight down jackets on the market.

  • The Nilas Jacket weighs 22oz, according to the catalog and my scale.  This is the same weight as the Neutrino. 
  • Nilas has two external zippered handwarmer pockets, not fleece-lined; same as Neutrino.
  • Nilas has two internal mesh stash pockets, not zippered.  Neutrino has one internal zippered pocket.
  • Nilas has windproof, highly water-resistant 15denier shell (Airshield Elite).  Interior fabric feels the same as the Neutrino's interior (quatum-like, 15 denier-ish fabric, super soft).  Neutrino is also windproof, highly water-resistant, but a 30denier shell.
  • Nilas has one-way zipper, Neutrino has two-way zipper. 
  • Nilas has adjustable hem (one adjustment, kinda difficult to use), Neutrino has adjustable hem (two adjustments, much easier to use)
  • Nilas has two-way adjustable hood, Neutrino does too.  Nilas is more difficult to adjust.
  • Nilas has butter-jersey internal cuffs (love them!), Neutrino has adjustable velcro cuffs
  • Nilas has a baffled body, sewn-through sleeves.  Neutrino is totally sewn-through.
  • Nilas has about 3.5 inches of loft in the body.  Neutrino has about 3 inches.

Pictures and Explanations


I'm 6'2", 185lbs.  This jacket is a Large.  Plenty big to put over all other layers, but it doesn't feel too big to wear over a t-shirt.  The ideal size for me, I think.  The Neutrino is a little slimmer fit.

The hood with a helmet.  The front of the jacket zips up quite high.  The hood fits nicely over a helmet.  I can turn my head from side to side without restriction.

Hood still fits nice without a helmet.  This is not cinched.  Two hood adjustments: one bungy around the opening of the hood and one that pulls from the back of the head.



Neutrino, for comparison.  Hood is loftier but doesn't zip up quite as high in front.  Also has two hood adjustments.


Pull-cord is small diameter, the cord pull is on the interior of the jacket (have to unzip the jacket to adjust, but cords won't whip you in the face in high winds), and the cordlock is in between the layers of the jacket where my fingers are in the top picture.  Difficult to adjust, especially with gloves.

Neutrino hood, for comparison.  Adjustments on exterior, easy to adjust with gloves.  Cord tubes keep cord from whacking you in the face in high winds.

Nilas is loftier.  There is about 3.5 inches of loft in the body of the Nilas, about 3 inches in the neutrino.  Also, Nilas is baffled in the body, which means no cold spots.

Two-way zipper on Neutrino, not on Nilas

Two internal mesh stash pockets (no zippers) large enough for nalgene bottles.  One zip pocket on Neutrino.  Hem drawcord on Nilas is the same skinny cord as on hood.  There is only one small adjustment on the hem.  This, combined with the small diameter of the cord, make it difficult to adjust the hem, especially with gloves.  If the hem is cinched, there is a lot of extra cord hanging out.  Two adjustments would make cinching much easier and would help divide the extra cord between two sides.  Two adjusments and thicker cord on the Neutrino make it easier to adjust.



The cuffs on the Nilas are simple but very effective; no adjustment, but it keeps snow out with gloves on.  They are comfortable and add a little hand warmth.  I think MHW nailed the cuffs.  The Neutrino cuffs are effective and easy to adjust, but not as comfortable.  Don't mind my foot in the bottom corner.


To Sum Things Up




The Nilas is a sweet jacket!  Better than the Neutrino?  I'm not sure.  I think it will definitely be warmer than the Neutrino, it is just as light as the Neutrino, and I do like some of the features better than the Neutrino (cuffs and internal mesh pocket).  The Neutrino is more easily adjusted with gloves, but with a little more effort the Nilas has an equal amount of adjustments.  The Nilas is probably the superior jacket because of the warmth, but if I were deciding between one or the other, I'd probably still go with the Neutrino.  The main reason for this is the Neutrino retails for $325, the Nilas for $500.  I don't think the Nilas is almost $200 more of a jacket than the Neutrino.  I have not, however, climbed in the Nilas.  I haven't done more with it than walk outside in the cold a little bit.  My mind could change after using it.  I'll update this review once I've used it quite a bit.

I think the Nilas is a great option if you have lots of money or you are the type that wants the warmest for the absolute least amount of weight and cost doesn't matter or a big Ueli fan and you just have to have his stuff.  I wouldn't hesitate to take the Nilas up to Denali as my warmest layer.  I would be a little more hesitant with the Neutrino (because it's sewn-through).

If you want a less-expensive option that will be similar in warmth with the Nilas but still light weight, the Neutrino Plus is a baffled version with slightly more down than the Neutrino Endurance.  It is 5 ounces heavier (27oz) than the Nilas and Sewn-through Neutrino.  The Neutrino Plus retails for $400. 

After a Couple Months of Use

Phil in the Neutrino, myself in the Nilas

I have now been able to use the Nilas for a couple months, including most recently a week in the Wind Rivers, Wyoming.  The more I use the jacket, the more I like it.  Here are a few things that have stood out to me after some use:

This jacket is WARM!  For the weight, I would guess that this is probably the warmest (or at least top three) jacket on the market.  I would compare this to the MHW Subzero SL hooded Jacket for warmth, even though it's about 14oz lighter.  Though I haven't been in extreme cold with it yet (colder than 0 degrees F), I even start to overheat while sitting in camp when it's 15 or 20 degrees F and the jacket is zipped up.

As I had guessed, this jacket is difficult to adjust with gloves on.  The hem was not as difficult as I thought it would be, but the hood is a pain.  I know it looks clean, but I hate having to unzip the jacket to pull the hood drawcords tight.  Once unzipped, I couldn't find the pull cord with gloves on because it's too small.  Loosening the cord is equally difficult.  In the weather I had it in, it wasn't too big of a deal to slip my gloves off to make adjustments.  But, if you were on Denali, taking off gloves and unzipping the jacket could be a major discomfort.  I definitely think the Neutrino's design is better in this regard.

I love the two internal mesh pockets.  They are deep enough that I have never had anything fall out of them, even small things like batteries.  The stretchy binding at the top of the pocket helps to keep things in.  I wouldn't mind an internal zip pocket as well as the mesh pockets for a little more security, but I'd rather have the mesh pockets and no zippered pocket than the other way around.  These pockets easily swallow a liter nalgene, gloves, propane canister, beanie, wallet, GPS, all at the same time.  Very useful.

The cuffs are great, but I find that I don't like using the thumbholes much.  At first I always had my thumbs through the holes, but I notices that when I reach for things, the sleeves feel a little short and there is a lot of pulling on the thumb.  This got to be uncomfortable after a little while.  So, I stopped using the thumbholes and the cuffs are still great.  They seal out cold well and are very comfortable.  I think somebody with slightly shorter arms than me would have no problem using the thumbholes.


I love the fit as a belay jacket.  This jacket is slightly boxier than the Neutrino, but I feel that it is the ideal size for use as a belay jacket.  When I layer is over other layers, it feels trim but not too tight.  No loft in the jacket is compromised.  But even wearing it alone over a t-shirt didn't feel to baggy.  The Neutrino fits ideally as a stand alone jacket, but feels just a tad tight when layered over other layers.  It's not really uncomfortable, but it does compress the down a little.  The Nilas is just slightly roomier, which I think is the better fit as a belay jacket.

Finally, I really like the face fabric and liner material.  The liner is so soft and supple; it really feels good next to the skin.  The face fabric, though it sounds a little crinkley, it is very light and so far very weather resistant.  I haven't had it in really wet conditions other than about five minutes of rain, but the DWR worked very well and a few hours of blowing snow couldn't touch it.  If you're using the jacket for what it's designed to do (keep you warm in extra cold temps), you shouldn't have a problem with the fabric wetting out.  The shell fabric was surprisingly robust, as well.  I haven't climbed rock in it, but I have brushed it against granite faces and the face fabric didn't seem to mind.  But, just as a precaution, I try not to avoid touching rocks with it.

All in all, I'm starting to feel that this jacket is more worth the $500 price tag than when I first got it, but I still think the Neutrino Plus, though slightly heavier, is the better value all around.




60 comments:

  1. You had time to write the article but not to weigh the jacket?

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    1. I don't have a good scale at my place that will measure to the gram. I'm working on it. I have weighed other items using a postal scale at a gear shop I used to work at, but they have recently gone out of business. Therefore, I have not had time to go buy a scale and weigh the jacket.

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    2. Dude, show some gratitude. Where else are you going to find this much info on the Nilas right now?

      Delete
  2. Good news. My new scale should arrive tomorrow. I will update the weight of the jacket as soon as I can.

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  3. According to my new scale, the Nilas weighs exactly 22oz; 22.8oz with the stuff sack.

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  4. Totally awesome review. Thanks for the great info!

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  5. Thanks for reading Chris. Unfortunately this jacket arrived late in the season so any field use is pretty limited. I'll get to use it quite a bit next week and I'll update the review with my opinions after some use.

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  6. What if I were to use this jacket instead of the North Face Himalayan Parka or the MHW Absolute Zero? I want to use it possibly in greenland and even on Island Peak (6000m peak in the himalayas)... Would it be good enough?

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  7. It's definitely not as warm as the HImalayan Parka or Absolute Zero, but I think it would be warm enough for up to 6000m peaks. I wouldn't hesitate to take it to Denali, for example, but I would have some other synthetic layers along with it (Atom lt, NWA Black Spider lt hoody, etc). Another great, albeit slightly heavier option is the Rab Neutrino Plus. That's the fully baffled version of the original Neutrino Endurance. It's just as warm as the Nilas (maybe warmer) but much easier to use with gloves and cheaper. It weighs 27oz and is $400ish instead of $500 for the Nilas.

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  8. Great review! Thank you. I have (unfortunately) a sensitivity to high pitch "friction" noise. Is there any difference between Nilas and Neutrino Plus in noise level or shell softness?
    Thank you.

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  9. The Nilas has a bit of a crinkly feel and sound, a little more than the Neutrino. Both sound about the same rubbing up against itself, but the Nilas shell, when compressed, crinkles a little and makes a little more noise. I don't think it's very loud. I'm not really sensitive to that kind of sound so I've never paid much attention. I hope this helps.

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  10. Great review! How would you rate the Nilas for use as the warmest layer on Aconcagua?
    Thanks

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  11. Oh, and I'll add that I am also going to have the Micro Puff Hoody on Aconcagua, so the Nilas would be in addition to that.
    Thanks again!

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  12. The Nilas should work great for Aconcagua. A friend of mine used his MHW Subzero SL Hooded Jacket on Denali and Aconcagua and it worked great. The Nilas is very similar in warmth to the subzero sl hooded jacket, but it's almost one pound lighter. I think it would work great, especially in addition to a micro puff hoody. Hope this helps. Good Luck!

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  13. hello,

    thanks for your review! how do you use the nilas jacket?
    do you also wear it under your gtx-jacket? is there enough space?

    how is the isolation if you wear it as the top layer?

    greets from austria,
    hannes

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  14. Thanks for reading. I only wear this as an outer layer as a belay jacket or for hanging out at camp in cold weather and I put it over all of my other layers. It is too puffy to fit under any of my gore-tex jackets and it is water resistant enough to handle snow without another waterproof jacket over it. It is also too warm to exercise in, except in the coldest of conditions. If it is cold enough to need a jacket like this, any moisture should be in the form of snow and the shell is weather-resistant enough to handle that.

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    1. hey, and thanks for your answer!
      so, if it's really cold, you only use the nilas, without an goretex jacket under it?
      (like a expedition jacket?^^)

      but what do you do, if it's cold and you need an insolated jacket for climbing? do you have a second down/primaloft jacket under your gtx-jacket then?

      really - thanks! :)

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  15. Hi Hansn. Yeah, I have a light primaloft jacket (Arc'teryx Atom lt) that I use as an active layer in cold weather. I guess technically the Atom lt uses Coreloft, not primaloft, but it's pretty much the same thing. For example, in May, while climbing Mt. Rainier, it was really windy and about 10-15 degrees Fahrenheit. I climbed in the Atom. When we stopped to hang out on the summit for a few minutes (in single digits and 60-80 mph winds), I pulled on the Nilas (actually my father-in-law was wearing the Nilas and I was wearing the Rab Neutrino) and was plenty warm without moving. Once we started moving again for the hike down, the Nilas was to warm.

    A few great primaloft or primaloft-like options for active use in cold weather are the Arc'teryx Atom lt hoody (has powerstretch side panels for better breathability but doesn't block the wind under the arms when it's super windy), the Brooks Range Cirro Hoody (uses 40g of Primaloft and Pertex Quantum shell), and the Rab Xenon Hoody (uses 60g of Primaloft and Pertex Quantum shell). The Atom will have the best breathability, the Xenon will be the most weather resistant and warmest (less stitching on exterior shell and no powerstretch side panels), and the Cirro is the middle ground. You can't go wrong with any of these jackets.

    That was more than you asked. Sorry.

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  16. To add to my last comment, I rarely hike/climb in a gore-tex shell unless it's really wet weather. If it's cold weather, I prefer something more breathable and less water resistant. A light wind shirt is usually enough to keep the snow and wind at bay in really cold weather. If the weather is hovering around freezing or higher, then I might take a gore-tex jacket in case it rains or the snow is wet. If I know I'm expecting really nasty cold, snowy, and windy weather, then I may take a gore-tex jacket, but usually I'll just rely on my primaloft layer or a windshirt.

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  17. again, thanks for your answer.

    i make it short - the nilas jacket is ordered :D

    exactly the jacket i was searching for!

    would you recommend the atom lt jacket?
    I'm actually using the marmot baffin jacket (got it in sale, unfortunately no hood). but its a good jacket, in addition more robust than it looks like.

    however, thanks for your comments and the good review!

    again, greets from austria (mountains become white now :-) )
    Hannes

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  18. The Atom LT is my favorite insulated jackets for active use. I would highly recommend it. I really like the others that I mentioned (the Brooks Range Cirro and Rab Xenon) but they are very similar to the Marmot Baffin (which I think is a great jacket). The Atom would be better for active use than the Baffin, in my opinion, because of the breathable panels under the arms. I have a jacket very similar to the Baffin but won't hike in it because I overheat. I tend to use it more as a belay jacket while ice climbing. I do hike in the Atom in super cold weather. Hope this helps.

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  19. thank you really for your answers!!!

    helped me a lot!

    keep on climbing :)

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  20. Greg,

    I just wanted to say thanks for all the great reviews. I love 'em! You and Dane have me pretty much sold on the Rab Neutrino Plus jacket, but as I was searching for one, Backcountry has a sale on the Nilas. I think the color options for the Neutrino Plus suck and I love the orange color of the Nilas.

    If the Nials and Neutrino Plus were priced the same, which one would you go with? I'm looking for a jacket to use on belay for waterfall ice climbing and winter mountain hiking here in the Northeast. Oh yeah, any idea how many grams of down are in the Nilas? The Neutrino Pluse has approximately 275 grams. I wanted to make a comparison. Thanks man!

    -Chris

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    1. Sorry Chris for the slow reply. I didn't realize I hadn't replied yet. I think the Neutrino Plus is the better jacket, even when the price is the same as the Nilas. If light weight is more important, it's hard to find a warmer jacket than the Nilas for the weight. But, when comparing features, warmth, and materials for the price (even at the same price), I personally would go for the Neutrino Plus.

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    2. Hey Greg,

      Thanks for the reply, buddy. I went ahead and ordered the Nilas last month. I used it for the first time this past weekend for some ice climbing in New York. I ordered the medium and large and stuck with the medium.

      Here's my issue with the Nilas. The hood sucks! When wearing my R1, Gamma MX and my Black Diamond Vector helmet, I cant zip the jacket up and wear the hood. I couldn't believe the size difference between the medium and the large. The large allowed me to zip the hood all the way up, but I literally swam in the damn thing.

      I love the orange color though. Besides for availability, that's why I ordered the Nilas. backcountry had it on sale, too! I'm seriously contemplating a return and finding a Nuetrino Plus somewhere. I just wish Rab had better color options. Great blog man!

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  21. Thanks for the review. Just ordered the jacket (State Orange) from Dick's Sporting Goods for $281.24. with Cyber Monday online special.

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  22. Great review - thanks! I find the loft on the inside of the sleeves to be pretty flattened out compared to the loftier outside part. I ordered my jacket online, so I can't compare it to others... It would make sense to shave off any weight on the inside sleeve as your arm rests to your side, but not convinced this is supposed to be this way. Is your jacket also much less lofty on the inside part of the sleeve?
    Thanks again.
    Serge

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  23. Thanks for reading the blog, Serge. Yeah, I noticed the same thing on the sleeves. The underarm seems to have less down than the outer part of the sleeve. Hope you like the jacket.

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    1. Thanks! I initially got this jacket to tackle Aconcagua (on the advice of a mountain guide's girlfriend who uses it on Denali). My trip has since fell through, so for now I'll test it by winter biking in Montreal. I let you know how it fares.
      Serge

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    2. Well, this jacket should definitely be plenty warm for biking. Sorry your trip fell through.

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  24. Good review, FIW....
    "Neutrino Plus is a baffled version with slightly more down than the Neutrino Endurance. It is 5 ounces heavier (27oz) than the Nilas" The Nuetrino Plus has a bigger hood that will take a helmet if requirred that is also much thicker on the insulation there. Nuetrino Plus is also longer in the body and as you noted totally baffled in the body and arms. 5" of loft instead of 3.5" by my comparisons and a LOT warmer than the Nils. 5oz in this case that is likely well worth the weight and $100 cheaper @ retail. More than that on sale when you make a direct comparison. Sad note it he Neu Plus gets really hard to find. My bet is RAB doesn't make a lot of money on that one. Jacket is worth more..the Nils less.

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    1. Thanks, Dane, for reading, and for the comment. I absolutely agree. The Neutrino Plus is, in my opinion, the better jacket all around, and is the one that I would be spending my money on. But, the Nilas is plenty warm for winter climbs in the lower 48 and climbs in most bigger mountains the rest of the year, and at a killer weight. With that said, I'd buy the Neutrino Plus and find 5oz to shave elsewhere.

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  25. Hello!

    I'd like to buy Nilas but I don't know what size to chooes. I'm 193 cm and 80 kilos, I'm choosing between L and XL. Do you have any goo advice for me.

    Thank you and regards, Ziga

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    Replies
    1. You are a little taller than me but don't quite weigh as much. I'm about 84 kilos and about 187cm tall and I am a large in this jacket as a belay jacket (goes over all layers). I imagine you would be about the same size. I would wear a medium if I wasn't using it as a belay jacket. But, my father-in-law, who is the same size as me but has wider shoulders, needs the large because the medium is too narrow in the shoulders. So, I would guess you'd need the large. XL would be too baggy, I think.
      Hope this helps.

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  26. Hi everyone. I'm a guy from germany and I've bought that jacket cause I didn't want to wear the jack wolfskin stuff almost every second person wears here in germany. So I looked out for a warm jacket (not for climbing. Just for cold days. Please dont call me crazy ;) ) and found this review. 2 days later, with lot of luck, I found a Nilas for only ca. 170 $.
    I've never seen such a lightweight, superwarm jacket. It's awesome. But I've to agree with the sleeves. But I think that's for the flexibility.
    All in all a great jacket and thanks a lot for your Review!

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  27. Couple of thoughts for you Ryan. The Rab jackets fit one size down for the most part. We are very close in size and a Large Nilas fits like the RAB XLs. XL Nilas is huge on me. The difference in 6 or 7 oz on over all weight doesn't realistically reflect the additional 1.5" of loft (5" total) on the Nuetrino Plus. Some perspective on the 6 or 7 oz? A medium size 3 layer Swiss Army folding knife (3oz) and a decent pair of Julbos (Bivouak) in the case weigh (4oz) which adds up to 7oz. For climbs like Denali when you need a really warm jacket, sewn though sleeves and the drop in insulation is going to be felt. As a friend that has done Everest said of his Nilas, "what is up with MHW marketing - that Nilas Jacket seems skimpy for 8000m - am I missing something".

    I am not sure you can make up the 1.5" of additional insulation with any garment for the 6oz. WM down vest is 5oz. The Nilas is a nice jacket and likely a good choice for many in the lower 48 or the Alps used below 5000m, that want a down jacket. But there are better options I think for up high or Denali.

    I have a Nilas here now and just can't figure out where to use it. And not sure the Narrona Lyngen @ 26 oz, 3" of insulation, and a high tech combo of down, Primaloft 1 and multiple nylon shell layers isn't a better jacket than the Nilas. If you get a chance to look at one let me knwo what you think.

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  28. For your information. I´m 192 cm and 90 kg. I´ve bought the XL and it fits great.

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  29. I definitely wouldn't use any of the MHW Nilas line on something like Everest. I've never heard MHW say that the Nilas line is designed for something that high, though they do seem to try to make you think it is warmer than it really is. But Ueli didn't even use it on Everest. He used the absolute zero suit:

    http://www.planetmountain.com/english/gallery/img_d.php?keyID=12286&autore=Ueli%20Steck

    And I would prefer the Neutrino Plus' extra warmth on Denali, even though I think the Nilas is warm enough to survive. A friend just climbed the Cassin in May (took 4 days) and he took the Neutrino Endurance as his warmest layer (sewn through, not as warm as Nilas) and lived and no frostbite. Now a different friend who was on Denali said he would never take something that light and suggested the Neutrino Plus is the better option (which I agree with).

    As for the Narrona Lyngen, I still haven't gotten my hands on one and am very curious. It looks like a great option. But, the new, redesigned version doesn't use primaloft anymore. I think that's a shame. The combination seemed very functional. I'll try to get a hold of one of the older ones.

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    1. These are great reviews! I went with your recommendation and I used the Nilas on Aconcagua a couple months ago and it was perfect and looked great on my summit photo. I am going to try Denali this June and am wondering about the Nilas. You mentioned that the Neutrino Plus would be warmer and that your friend would never take anything as light as the Nilas on Denali. But they weigh the same at 22oz I think. I will have a Patagonia Micro Puff hoody as well. I talked to my Denali guide service and they weren't familiar with the Nilas but looked at it and said they prefer a 'parka' because it will cover the butt better. But, they said the Nilas was ok. Not sure what I am going to do. It will be a mid June start on Denali which is supposed to be warmer than May. Any thoughts?

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    2. I think the Neutrino PLUS would be a better option, which weighs 27oz. I think you may be confusing the Neutrino PLUS with the Neutrino Endurance. The Neutrino Endurance is sewn-through construction and weighs about 21oz (which is the same as the Nilas) and is the jacket I compared the Nilas to in the review. The Nilas, in my opinion, would be warm enough to survive, especially if you wear it with a micro puff jacket. But there are a few things to consider.

      First, how high are you planning to camp? 14K? 17K? I assume if you are going with a guide service, you are planning to climb the West Buttress route and are planning to spend some time at 17K Camp. If that's the case, I would take a warmer jacket than the Nilas or the Neutrino Endurance. I think the Neutrino Plus would work well.

      I have a couple friends that have climbed Denali using the Neutrino Endurance. They said it was warm enough to survive, but they didn't camp higher than 14K and went 14K to the summit and back in a day, and they were also layering it with other synthetic layers. They said that they would have wanted a warmer jacket if they camped higher than 14K.

      A second thing to consider is the length of the jacket. Both the Nilas and Neutrino Endurance are a little shorter than the Neutrino Plus and many other parkas. Jacket length usually stops somewhere around the top or middle of the butt. Parkas usually extend to the bottom of the butt. Just that extra length helps them feel significantly warmer than shorter jackets.

      A third thing to consider is the pace at which you'll be climbing. For someone like Ueli Steck who moves at a fast pace and therefore keeps his body warm by simply burning calories and keeping his heart rate high and would spend less time at altitude exposed to the extreme cold, he can get away with a lighter, less-warm jacket than mere mortals like myself that move much slower. So, if you plan on your pace being slow and steady, it may be worth bringing a warmer jacket.

      So, to recap - I think the Nilas will be warm enough to stay alive on Denali, especially if you're pairing it with a micro puff jacket. But, if you plan to spend time camped at 17K, I'd suggest something warmer and longer. If you plan to move light and fast, the Nilas might be a good fit, but if you're more of the "slow and steady" type, I'd suggest something warmer. A great option that is warmer but still quite light is the Neutrino Plus (different than the Neutrino Endurance).

      I hope this is helpful. Good luck on Denali!

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    3. Very helpful advice, which I'll take into account now, and is leaning me towards a purchase of a new parka or at least a rental. I am planning the WB route and 17k camp is in the plan, and I so expect a guided trip with people I have never met yet will be slower paced than Ueli- even myself alone is slower than Ueli! I slowed down markedly on the last 300-500 meters to summit of Aconcagua -so that was a great experience before attempting Denali. Thanks again for all the great advice!

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  30. Love the review. Saw this jacket on sale,and I am thinking about buying it. I don't need it for mountain climbs,since I will only wear it in town,is it warm enough for winter,when it's about -10 to -15 Celsius outside,without needing too much layers underneath? It's quite light,so that's my only concern will it be warm enough.

    Tnx!

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    1. Thanks for reading. Yes, this jacket is warm enough for -10 to -15 degree C weather without much layering, at least while moving. It is definitely a warm jacket for the weight. As has been mentioned many times so far, the Rab Neutrino Plus is a warmer alternative that is still quite light, and less expensive when talking MSRP, but it is much easier to find a great deal on the Nilas than finding the Neutrino Plus on sale. Hope this helps.

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  31. I appreciate your review great detail!. One question...I am 5' 10" and 185lbs. You think the size medium would be a better fit for me?

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    1. Are you wearing it over all your other layers as a belay jacket? If so, I'd suggest maybe the large. If you're wearing it over a shirt, a medium would probably fit well. Hope this helps

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  32. Thanks! I just ordered one. Hope MHW gives you some gratitude for the effort and great information.

    Will

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  33. Thanks for the review, I've been looking at down jackets for summit, but most importantly camping. I'm looking at the MHW Hooded Phantom, Montane North Star, and the MHW Nilas. I'm not sure if you have any experience with the first two jackets but I thought I'd ask. I'm most concerned with camping, because you spend I typically spend long periods of time idle. After a long day is nice to wrap up in warmth. I'm trying to make a complete system so I'll have a base layer of a wool shirt, followed by a polar tech power dry hoodie, 100g permiloft one jacket (no hood)(if the temps are 20+F I'll bring my gortex shell and this is plenty for me) but If I sit still for a while (at 20F or below) the permiloft isn't enough. Most of the temperatures I'll encounter will be above -5F. If the Phantom can keep me warm in those conditions for 2 hours at rest I'll go with it. Any thoughts or information you have would be greatly appreciated.

    Ernie

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  34. In my opinion, a hooded phantom jacket AND a 100g Primaloft One jacket would easily be enough to stay warm for a couple hours at temperatures above -5F. The Nilas would be overkill, in my opinion, when worn with a 100g primaloft jacket. I think the Nilas would be enough to keep you warm at -5F for a couple hours without the primaloft jacket. I'd also consider looking into the OR Incandescent Hoody and the Rab Infinity. I like the Incandescent a little better because it is a longer cut and feels to me like the warmer jacket. It weighs the same as the hooded Phantom but has the best warranty in the industry (which is always nice with ultralight down garments).

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  35. Hey, Wondering how much you've worn the Nilas and how you feel it will keep it's warmth and feathers. I just got mine and noticed that down is poking out of the seams in quite a few places and some is floating around as I try it on. I'm thinking about sending it back on this reason alone, but figured I'd get your opinion after using it for awhile.
    I have the MH Chillwave and 2 other down jackets and this hasn't happenend or doesn't until the jacket has seen extended use. Have you had issues with it losing down in concernable quantities? Any thoughts?

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    1. I wouldn't be too worried about losing a few feathers out of the jacket. I haven't worn the Nilas a ton in the last year; for a couple months at the end of last winter is all. My father-in-law owns the jacket and he gave it to me last year to wear and test out. He now wears it more than I do and he does wear it quite a bit. I've noticed a few stray feathers and plumes, but nothing that makes me worry too much. If I notice a feather poking through, I simply grab the feather from the opposite side of the jacket (for example, if it's poking through the interior fabric, I grab the feather from the exterior) and pull it back into the jacket. I have a western mountaineering jacket that leaks feathers on occasion (surprisingly I haven't noticed this is my Rab Neutrino Endurance). After lots of use with the Western Mountaineering jacket and a bit of use with the Nilas, I haven't noticed the slightest difference in warmth and loft from losing the occasional feather. Now, if it's bleeding feathers (like two or three each time you put it on) or more importantly down plumes, I might be concerned. If the Nilas uses 850+ down like they claim, over 90% of the insulation should be down plumes, which shouldn't come through the liner nearly as easily as the feathers. The feathers have a needle-like quill that pokes through the material and works its way out. If I have a feather poking out, sometimes I just pull it out anyway. The down plumes are the good part. I don't really care much if I lose a feather.

      So to answer your question, no, I haven't lost down in alarming quantities in the Nilas, but I have lost a few feathers here and there. If you notice that you're losing down plumes often, I may consider sending it back. If it's the occasional feather, I personally would look at it as the fill power of the jacket is slowly going up by getting rid of the feathers.

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    2. Thanks for the info, I believe it's the plumes that are coming out, they are tiny and there's no way I could pull them back in, they are small and they don't have the pointy ends like feathers in lower quality jackets. I was curious because there are lots coming out intermittently of most places where it has been sewn. I have seen the Nilas for really cheap a few places lately so was wondering if this is maybe a design flaw or something during their first try at the jacket, maybe a new model next year? If they keep coming out like this, it will be going back for sure.
      Anyways, just thoughts, thanks for all the reviews!

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  36. Can anyone comment on relative warmth between the Nilas and the Chillwave? If weight is not an issues, which one is warmer? I'm considering both for a move to a place with average Jan temps of -40F. Thanks for the help.

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  37. I've never used the "Chillwave jacket", but the Chillwave is pretty much the same jacket as the MHW Subzero Hooded Jacket, which I used to have. If I were to guess, I'd say the warmth of both jackets is very similar. Because the Nilas is sewn through in the arms and the Chillwave is fully baffled, the Chillwave may be slightly warmer. The reason why the Nilas is so much more expensive is because it uses a higher quality down (lighter, more expensive) and a higher quality shell (lighter, more expensive). Therefore, by spending the extra money you get a lighter jacket, but I don't think it's any warmer.
    As has been said in other comments, I would check out the Rab Neutrino Plus jacket. It's warmer than both, lighter than the Chillwave and less expensive than the Nilas.
    Hope this helps.

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    1. Yes I have both, and the one thing I noticed, is that the Nilas doesn't feel as warm in the arms. I've only worn the Nilas to -10C with a 20 km wind and it was still warm, but the Chillwave Parka definitely feels warmer. In my mind, they are two totally different jackets, with two different uses. I might have to check out the Rab Neutrino Plus as it seems to fit in the middle and could possibly replace both. The lightweight Nilas is nice for lightweight climbing etc, I wouldn't bring the Chillwave for this, but the Nilas doesn't seem nearly as durable. Hope that helps!

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  38. Im also 6.2 almost same weight , what is your chest measurement? I found xl really discounted but you have large, is your large tight fit?

    I have xl in marmot and large in patagonia.

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  39. I want to score a Nilas jacket, but not paying full price. You shop around and they go on sale from time to time for well under 300 bucks.
    The Nilas is 850 fill, that is why it is more lofty I guess. And they are suppose to be the first to coat the down with some kind of water proof coating, so the jacket performs well in damp and wet conditions. Suppose to keep you warm like synthetic, even if it gets wet. Have you got wet with the jacket yet?

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    1. Yeah, you can often find the Nilas for a pretty good price these days, but they don't all have the water-resistant down. The first couple years they made the Nilas they just used normal 850 fp down. Water-resistant down came later. And the first companies I saw using water-resistant down were Sierra Designs, Kelty, and Brooks Range. By the following year pretty much every other outdoor company was using it. Mountain Hardwear came along with their water-resistant down after those first few key companies had been using it for a couple seasons.
      As for water-resistant down, once the down gets wet, it will not insulate. The key with water-resistant down is that it takes longer for the down to get saturated and lose its loft. Synthetics stay warm(er) when wet because they are able to maintain the majority of their loft, even when wet. Unlike down, synthetic fibers will not absorb moisture (they're made of plastic), moisture only gets trapped between the fibers. Therefore, synthetics will insulate better when wet and dry more quickly.
      The Nilas that was reviewed here was the first generation Nilas that does not have water-resistant down. I have been out in wet weather in it though and it did a good job at shedding the moisture; not because of the down, but because of the DWR on a good shell fabric.
      The reason why the Nilas is loftier than the Neutrino is because they use more down and it is a box baffled construction, as opposed to sewn through. A slightly higher quality down (850 fp compared to 800 fp in the Neutrino) helps keep the weight down, but the biggest weight savings is in trimming all excess features and material and using superlight fabrics.

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    2. Correction to my last comment, they've only been making the Nilas for a couple years. The first year they didn't use water-resistant down. It looks like they do now. Be aware of which jacket you're buying if you find it online. It could be the previous model without water-resistant down.

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  40. Looking for a replacement for my battered Rab Neutrino jacket, I wear a medium Neutrino would I be the same in MHW Nilas Jacket?

    Cheers Pete

    Great review by the way!!

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    1. Sorry I didn't see your comment until now. Hope this info is not too late.

      Yes, if you are a medium in the Neutrino you'd most likely be a medium in the Nilas. The Nilas is cut a little roomier than the Neutrino, but not so much that you'd want to go down a size.

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